SwayID 3/19 Call Transcript: "Angry Agatha" Pitch Test + "Challenger Sale" Method Breakdown

Call Participants:

1️⃣ Owner of a leading TikTok UGC ad agency
2️⃣ SwayID Founder (me, Kaeya Majmundar)

Purpose:

To test our new sales pitch angle using Challenger Sale Methodology—designed to teach, tailor, and take control of the conversation.

Anchor:

"Have you ever dealt with an Angry Agatha?"

The pissed-off customer weaponizing regulatory changes, monitoring your missteps, and triggering class action lawsuits.

The “Challenger Sale” Methodology Breakdown

1️⃣ Teach & Provide Unique Insights:

• Educate the prospect on problems they don’t even realize they have.

• Present new perspectives: Challenge the way they currently think about risk.

• Explain the "why": Show why class action lawsuits—not FTC fines—are the real threat.

2️⃣ Tailor the Approach:

• Personalize the message: No one’s thinking about the compliance risk.

• Address specific needs: Highlight real examples from their world like TikTok Shop and deceptive UGC ads.

• Showcase deep expertise in regulatory changes and lawsuit trends.

3️⃣ Take Control of Conversation:

• Lead the discussion: Position SwayID as not just a tool, but an inevitability.

• Be assertive, not aggressive: Show confidence without overselling.

• Handle objections before they arise: Frame the conversation so the prospect realizes they can’t afford not to act.

💬 The Conversation Begins

Agency Owner:

"When I saw your website, I was a bit confused."

Me (Kaeya, SwayID Founder):

"Yeah, haha. We’re in the middle of a site revamp. It will be easier to understand by Friday. Thanks for that feedback. And on that thread by the way, can I run my new pitch that informed our new site home page revamp by you? I’d like to tell you about a persona named “Angry Agatha.” You can let me know if this is clearer?"

Agency Owner:

"Sure."

Me:

"There’s a new regulation that passed in October 2024 that puts a fine on non-compliant UGC ads and influencer posts. But here’s the thing: no one actually cares about the fine. What companies really care about are class action lawsuits."

Agency Owner:

"Wait…class actions?"

Me:

"Yeah, and that’s where Angry Agatha comes in. She’s the prototypical American customer who lives to sue brands. She sees an opportunity, hires the “1-800-sue-a-brand” type attorneys, and sues. I’m assuming you know what I’m talking about?”

Agency Owner:

“Not sure?”

Me:

“In the US, if you can get sued for wearing a red shirt, someone will sue you. Class action lawsuits are practically a business model…an income stream. One customer complains, an attorney rounds up a bunch of similar “victims,” and suddenly a single complaint turns into a multi-million-dollar legal attack."

Shein just got hit big time. Carshield just settled for $10M. Celsius just settled in the millions.”

Agency Owner:

“Seriously?”

Me:

“Yes. And here’s the tricky part. These things are almost always rooted in game theory mechanics. It’s not straight math and easily predictable. That’s why its best to stay generally protected.”

Agency Owner:

“Tell me more?”

Me:

“These lawsuits aren’t just about “getting justice”. They’re about payouts. The real problem is opportunistic customers who smell money. And once they see a payday, they’re coming for you.

Here I’ll walk you through this lawsuit probability matrix”

• 🔴 High Risk = These factors almost guarantee more lawsuits.

• 🟠 Medium Risk = These factors depend on how easy the lawsuit is to win.

• 🟢 Low Risk = Consumers will always try, but they need legal backing to succeed.

Unfortunately, UGC and influencer marketing risk now checks all these boxes…and unsurprisingly class action lawsuits have accelerated this year already every couple weeks there’s a new one.”

⚡ The TikTok Problem: A D2C Brand Is Already Feeling It

Agency Owner:

"Sht. We work with a lot of creators. So how would this impact TikTok Shop? Because the videos on TikTok Shop are crazy exaggerated, fake stories, all that. It’s the most deceptive marketing I see right now, apart from hardcore affiliates."

" can’t imagine TikTok Shop converting as well as it does without those narratives."

Me:

"Exactly. And I have a perfect example, a well-known supplement brand named [redacted]. Do you know them?"

Agency Owner:

"Yeah, actually, they’re a client of ours."

Me:

"No way. So you probably saw what happened recently. One of their affiliates used an AI-generated fake testimonial in an ad about a Saudi Prince’s mistress using their product, it went viral. But then on Twitter blew up with people calling it deceptive advertising. I actually texted their CMO about it, and he had no clue that content was still out there.

Here’s the kicker: he had already asked the creator to take it down weeks before. But the content was still live and going viral for the wrong reasons.”

Agency Owner:

"Sht, no I didn’t I see that. So what happens in a situation like this?"

Me:

"This is exactly the problem. Right now, this brand has no way to prove they weren’t behind that ad. Saying “we didn’t approve this” doesn’t kill a lawsuit before it even starts."

Agency Owner:

"So what does?"

Me:

"Timestamped proof of compliance hygiene. If this brand had SwayID, they’d have been able to say: ”Look, this creator went rogue. Here’s the record that shows we tried to prevent this."

"In fact, let me reference a real case so you know I’m not just making this up."

💡 "Let Me Reference a Real Case So You Know I’m Not Just Talking Out My A**”

Me:

"Know Drunk Elephant? The NAD investigated TikTok influencers promoting their products. The issue? The influencers didn’t properly disclose that their posts were sponsored. The regulators came after Drunk Elephant and the influencers, but here’s what happened next:

1️⃣ Drunk Elephant had documentation proving that it had instructed influencers on compliance.
2️⃣ They submitted those records to NAD, along with a statement reinforcing their commitment to responsible influencer marketing.
3️⃣ The result? They weren’t penalized.”

💡 Why This Works

Me:

"But here’s the key—it’s not that Drunk Elephant got “let off the hook” because influencers took the blame. It’s because the FTC doesn’t expect brands to be perfect. No one does. Humans are fallible. Creator marketing is inherently uncontrollable. The FTC just wants to see that brands have good faith compliance hygiene. That they’re making an effort."

And guess what? Class action lawyers know this too."

⚖️ What Happens When Angry Agatha Goes to a Class Action Lawyer?

Me:

"So let’s say Angry Agatha storms into a law firm, trying to make a case against a brand that’s using SwayID."

1️⃣ The lawyer reviews the case.
2️⃣ Sees the brand has full compliance records.
3️⃣ Realizes the effort-to-payout ratio is bad.
4️⃣ Too much work, low probability of winning.
5️⃣ Boom. She doesn’t take the case. That lawsuit threat just disappeared.

Trust me I’ve been on the flip side one too many times.

Agency Owner:

“Wait, you’ve been sued for this as a brand or what?”

Me:

No. I’ve been bombarded with countless frivolous lawsuit threats from people like disgruntled former workers etc…these sit in the category of “Angry Agatha” lawsuits. They all have the same basic foundational mechanics. Whether it’s anger towards a former employer or a business you brought from. It’s quite fascinating actually. I’m obsessed.

🔑 How SwayID Works

Agency Owner:

"I can tell. So how does the product work?"

Me:

"Are you familiar with Deel?"

Agency Owner:

"Yeah, of course."

Me:

"Awesome. They’re my favorite company to anchor your understanding in when I can…both because the analogy makes sense and because I love their founders, Alex and Shuo. I’ve known Alex since 2015, and he’s actually one of our angel investors!!"

"So, anyways. Just like Deel handles global hiring compliance, we handle Influecner and UGC ad compliance."

"In Deel, you know how it starts with there being two portals—one for the employer and one for the contractor. In SwayID, there are two portals as well—one for businesses and one for creators. Got it?"

Agency Owner:

"Yeah, got it."

Me:

"So, brands invite creators to sign up, not to get paid within SwayID (unlike Deel), but to acknowledge compliance policies, take training modules, and use our content compliance checker."

"The compliance checker flags content for risk levels—low, medium, high. If a creator ignores compliance? Now the brand has receipts proving they tried to do it right. Time-stamped proof of work. That’s key."

"And here’s the thing—this isn’t extra work for the brand. We built this to be lightweight and easy. It’s the “minimum viable” compliance layer that fits into any workflow without making life harder for marketing teams."

🔑 Who Is This For? The ICP & Market Evolution

Agency Owner:

"So who exactly is the ICP for this? Who’s actually buying it?"

Me:

"Right now, first-wave adopters are Fortune 500 brands. They’re the first ones getting hit with lawsuits, so they feel the pain immediately."

"But this follows the same adoption curve as AccessiBe—you familiar with them?"

Agency Owner:

“No.”

Me:

"They do ADA compliance for websites. They started with large corporations getting sued for ADA violations. Then, when those lawsuits exploded, mid-market brands started paying attention and adopting compliance tools preemptively."

"SwayID follows the similar pattern. Fortune 500s (namely their agencies) because they care the most. Then, when lawsuits ramp up, mid-market brands will adopt as a protective measure."

🚨 Two Types of Businesses—Which One Are You?

"Here’s what we learned: there are two types of businesses."

1️⃣ “I’m Always Gonna Get Sued” → These brands bake compliance into their workflows because they know it’s inevitable. Think: Fortune 500s, major DTC brands, and anyone who has been burned before (like me).
2️⃣ “I’m Never Gonna Get Sued” → These brands roll the dice, ignore compliance, and hope for the best. These are the ones that eventually get blindsided by class action lawsuits. This is not our ICP.

SwayID fits the first group. We don’t sell fear. We sell peace of mind for brands who already expect they’re targets."

Agency Owner:

“So what happens if a lawsuit threat comes?”

Me:

"If a lawsuit or legal threat comes in, we’re not lawyers—but we do provide compliance specialists to help brands respond quickly and efficiently.

"nstead of dumping everything on their legal teams, SwayID equips marketing teams with a structured compliance history, so they can instantly package evidence and respond without scrambling.

Marketing teams don’t have time to go hunting through emails and message threads. We make sure everything is stored, timestamped, and instantly accessible when they need it.”

⚖️ Lightbulb Moment

Agency Owner:

"So you’re like a teflon coating for UGC and influencer marketing agencies—lawsuit threats don’t stick? This is really interesting. I’ve never heard of any of this before."

Me:

“That’s the whole point of SwayID. It’s not about “being perfect.” It’s about making lawsuits so unappealing that they don’t even try.”

[End]

📝 Notes for Next Call (Refinement Goals)

—More command – Lean into certainty; you’re the expert here.
—”Sing it” with the cadence / staccato – Keep it punchy, sharp, and rhythmic.
—Leverage pauses more – Let insights sink in before hammering the next point.
—Push for commitment.

*It’s late at night. Brain fried. May contain typos / redundancies.

Kaeya